The Pig, the Snake and the Pigeon (2023 / Dir. Ching-Po Wong) Taiwan - Ethan Juan

[laagi]

How did I miss this? @One Armed Boxer did you know about this one? Looks like Ethan Juan ('Monga') is back on the big screen after 'The Abandoned' which I watched at a Festival last year. This seems another gritty crime thriller worth seeking out. Love the overall vibe of the trailer! BTW 'The Abandoned' is streaming on Netflix and highly recommended.

 

Edited January 30 by laagi

[laagi]

Some additional info 

This marks the return of HK director Ching-Po Wong (Jiang Hu, Once Upon a Time in Shanghai) making 'The Pig, The Snake and the Pigeon' his latest feature film since 9 years.

The movie also snagged a Golden Horse Award (2023) for "Best Action Choreography" and was nominated for a total of 7 awards. 

[Yihetuan]

I take it that this film has only been on the festival circuit and not to be found streaming anywhere nor a physical release put out?

[laagi]

4 minutes ago, Yihetuan said:

I take it that this film has only been on the festival circuit and not to be found streaming anywhere nor a physical release put out?

Unfortunately yes. And if it's any forecasting 'The Abandoned' took almost 2 years to be released on streaming! 

I'm still baffled on why though sometimes. I mean you got steaming horse manure getting a quicker release on even physcial media! 

[laagi]

On 1/30/2024 at 8:53 PM, Yihetuan said:

I take it that this film has only been on the festival circuit and not to be found streaming anywhere nor a physical release put out?

It's out on streaming (Netflix) if you or any other member of the board cares to check it out! I did tonight and highly recommend you do as well.

Taiwan's film industry really is starting to feel like a safe haven for movies in the vein of former HK productions. At the same time managing to add its own flavor, although IMHO it's undeniable the influence of the aforementioned is clearly there.

Ethan Juan gives it his all in this "based on true events" story of a gangster trying to leave a permanent mark on society and damn what a mark that is!

There's basically "only" three major action scenes so don't go in here expecting a bullet extravaganza. Coincidentally the movie is also divided into three distinguished parts which at times do almost feel like a different movie all together and here that's actually not such a bad thing.

Also I don't want to spoil anything but 'The Pig, The Snake & The Pigeon' features one of the insanest action scenes I've watched recently and I couldn't stop laughing. Although honestly I shouldn't have BUT I thought no way they're gonna do this and then BOOM they did it anyway. They literally went balls to the wall!

Supporting cast is great as well I especially enjoyed Ben Yuen and Yi-Wen Chen as former gangster bosses in hiding. Not to mention the beauty of Gingle Wang is a sight to behold as well @PandaPawPaw

Overall I thoroughly enjoyed this movie. Nice to see for once that something is meeting your expectations! Taiwan please give me more.

 

 

[laagi]

@One Armed Boxer I'd love to see a review from you on this if you can manage to squeeze it into your busy review schedule.

[PandaPawPaw]

1 hour ago, laagi said:

Supporting cast is great as well I especially enjoyed Ben Yuen and Yi-Wen Chen as former gangster bosses in hiding. Not to mention the beauty of Gingle Wang is a sight to behold as well @PandaPawPaw

I saw the HAWT signal in the sky......................................

She cute!

[Yihetuan]

Didn't even realize this has been out for over a month now?! Really enjoyed this one and probably the best acting performance I've seen for Ethan Juan since he's come full circle with Monga & The Abandoned. Also need to mention the standout performance from long time veteran HK character actor, Ben Yuen as vicious gangster on the lam, Hongkie. He just oozed a Joe Pesci type of loose canon energy. I was just anxiously awaiting the next act of wanton violence he was going to perpetrate on his next hapless victim whether it be one of his lackeys or his step-daughter (Gingle Wang) who unfortunately bears the brunt of sadism.

The film's premise is quite explicitly stated by Ethan Juan early on as he mentions the famous 5th Century Chinese parable of Zhou Chou and the Three Scourges to his former "underworld doctor" upon learning of his terminal medical diagnosis. But he does so not of a sense of honor or duty as in the old folktale but rather merely to seek fame and with a healthy dose of egoism as befits the modern world.

There were certain very dark almost black humor elements to the film that I enjoyed especially revolving around the 'cult' led by "Bullhead" (played by actor/director Chen Yi-wen of A Son fame) and while the violence was reserved for sudden brief bursts (don't go in expecting Gatao level of action & violence), I felt it particularly effective in the way it was implemented. One of the best films I've watched this year and definitely recommended.

[Yihetuan]

@laagi did you also find the final scene fascinating? I didn't even realize Taiwan carried out capital punishment & the manner which was shown in the film caught me off guard. Never seen it performed this way in any other movie!

[laagi]

16 hours ago, Yihetuan said:

@laagi did you also find the final scene fascinating? I didn't even realize Taiwan carried out capital punishment & the manner which was shown in the film caught me off guard. Never seen it performed this way in any other movie!

Same! I meant to look it up if that was actually true or just put in place for a dramatic ending.

[laagi]

Well I'll be damned. Every bit of it is true! I honestly had no idea @Yihetuan as well. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Taiwan

[Yihetuan]

4 hours ago, laagi said:

Well I'll be damned. Every bit of it is true! I honestly had no idea @Yihetuan as well. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Taiwan

Wow, so it was realistic. This part in the wiki article is hella funny though. Imagine tipping the guy sending you to the shadow realm.

Quote

It is tradition for the condemned to place a NT$500 or 1000 banknote in his leg irons as a tip for the executioners.^[26]

 

[One Armed Boxer]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:15 AM, laagi said:

@One Armed Boxer I'd love to see a review from you on this if you can manage to squeeze it into your busy review schedule.

Done! I'm in agreement with you and @Yihetuan on this one, and would expect to see it on many of the Best Movies of 2024 lists, despite it only being April! Full review treatment over at COF - 

https://cityonfire.com/the-pig-the-snake-and-the-pigeon-2023-review-ethan-juan-wong-ching-po/

 

[laagi]

2 hours ago, One Armed Boxer said:

Done! I'm in agreement with you and @Yihetuan on this one, and would expect to see it on many of the Best Movies of 2024 lists, despite it only being April! Full review treatment over at COF - 

https://cityonfire.com/the-pig-the-snake-and-the-pigeon-2023-review-ethan-juan-wong-ching-po/

 

Wonderful review! Thank you brother. I agree with everything you had to say about it. Quite frankly I'm still not over that particular scene lol.

One thing that really bothers me and makes me rather upset is that 'TPTSTP' as well as 'The Abandoned' just got dumped on Netflix!

Both are equally excellent films in the vein of true HK cinema. Also I'm in disbelief that no distributor thought these to be worthy of a physical release stateside!

Meanwhile some of the biggest horseshit seemingly gets a double whammy! That's really upsetting and a trend I honestly don't understand. Especially when it comes to Asian cinema.

[laagi]

For those interested, the story and main character are also inspired by true life gangster 'Liu Huan-Rong' (劉煥榮) who was executed in '93.

https://inf.news/en/news/cdf6c4277b5f526c0f2f7fc13265dfae.html

[Yihetuan]

6 hours ago, laagi said:

Wonderful review! Thank you brother. I agree with everything you had to say about it. Quite frankly I'm still not over that particular scene lol.

One thing that really bothers me and makes me rather upset is that 'TPTSTP' as well as 'The Abandoned' just got dumped on Netflix!

Both are equally excellent films in the vein of true HK cinema. Also I'm in disbelief that no distributor thought these to be worthy of a physical release stateside!

Meanwhile some of the biggest horseshit seemingly gets a double whammy! That's really upsetting and a trend I honestly don't understand. Especially when it comes to Asian cinema.

The Abandoned was merely okay but doesn't hold a candle to this film.

[laagi]

2 hours ago, Yihetuan said:

The Abandoned was merely okay but doesn't hold a candle to this film.

Agree to disagree. I think the comparison falls short as 'The Abandoned' leans heavy into the serial killer mystery thriller genre(s).

Looks like we have another job for our friend @One Armed Boxer at hand to even the odds here

BTW, off topic @One Armed Boxer was 'Port of Call' the last HK CAT III movie?

[Yihetuan]

@laagi that's what I mean. The Abandoned just rehashed some serial killer tropes with the distressed lead detective hounded by a past tragedy & finding redemption. The ending was actually what soured me a bit as I wish the director took it in a different more novel direction to leave the viewer guessing the outcome. While TPTSTP felt refreshingly different in its approach after about a 15 minutes in & I had no idea where this film was ultimately heading.

@One Armed Boxer great review & analysis at CoF. I read one of the comments say a "censored" version was airing in China? Where you aware there are multiple versions? Is there an even longer Director's cut? I would love to see a unabridged version.

What are your thoughts on Ethan Juan? Is this his best performance? I haven't followed his career that closely but I always felt he was more suited to indie & off beat roles.

Edited April 11 by Yihetuan

[laagi]

46 minutes ago, Yihetuan said:

@One Armed Boxer great review & analysis at CoF. I read one of the comments say a "censored" version was airing in China? Where you aware there are multiple versions? Is there an even longer Director's cut? I would love to see a unabridged version.

I think the version screened in China is uncensored also the comment on COF fails to mention any possible changes made.

https://www.cmgm.net/pig-snake-pigeon-pass-china-censorship/

47 minutes ago, Yihetuan said:

What are your thoughts on Ethan Juan? Is this his best performance? I haven't followed his career that closely but I always felt he was more suited to indie & off beat roles.

I'd be spitballing to really give a pithy opinion on his career as I've only seen bits and pieces of it. I remember first seeing him in 'Monga' which coincidentally was also my first taiwanese movie.

Since then just like yourself I haven't really watched a lot from him. Seems to me he only just re-gained (international?) fame in recent years.

However I'll say what I've seen from him (aside the recent 'Wolf Hiding') so far was excellent. He's certainly very talented and has a tremendous screen presence!

[Yihetuan]

18 minutes ago, laagi said:

I think the version screened in China is uncensored also the comment on COF fails to mention any possible changes made.

https://www.cmgm.net/pig-snake-pigeon-pass-china-censorship/

I'd be spitballing to really give a pithy opinion on his career as I've only seen bits and pieces of it. I remember first seeing him in 'Monga' which coincidentally was also my first taiwanese movie.

Since then just like yourself I haven't really watched a lot from him. Seems to me he only just re-gained (international?) fame in recent years.

However I'll say what I've seen from him (aside the recent 'Wolf Hiding') so far was excellent. He's certainly very talented and has a tremendous screen presence!

Interesting article. I thought for sure the "anti-cult" theme would come under scrutiny from the censors since it can be construed as a thinly veiled swipe at the CCP.

Yeah, he's shown tremendous acting chops in the last 2 films, The Abandoned & this one. Definitely one to keep an eye on for future projects.

[One Armed Boxer]

6 hours ago, laagi said:

Looks like we have another job for our friend @One Armed Boxer at hand to even the odds here

I'll add it to the list! 

6 hours ago, laagi said:

BTW, off topic @One Armed Boxer was 'Port of Call' the last HK CAT III movie?

As far as I'm aware that would be 2022's 'The Sparring Partner'. Have you seen this one? I’d be keen to hear your thoughts!

4 hours ago, Yihetuan said:

@One Armed Boxer great review & analysis at CoF. I read one of the comments say a "censored" version was airing in China? Where you aware there are multiple versions? Is there an even longer Director's cut? I would love to see a unabridged version.

It's difficult to find any exact details on what/if anything was censored for the Mainland release, but from what I can tell the general consensus seems to be that "minor censorship" was applied to remove some of the bloodier moments from the action scenes. No multiple versions or director's cut.

4 hours ago, Yihetuan said:

What are your thoughts on Ethan Juan? Is this his best performance?

For sure this is his best performance! I've only seen him before in 'Wu Xia', 'The Guillotines', 'The Assassin', and 'Detective Dee: The Four Heavenly Kings', all of which are supporting rather than starring roles, so I've never really had a strong opinion of him before. His role in 'The Pig, the Snake and the Pigeon' definitely shows he's capable of carrying a movie as a lead.

 

[laagi]

8 hours ago, One Armed Boxer said:

For sure this is his best performance! I've only seen him before in 'Wu Xia', 'The Guillotines', 'The Assassin', and 'Detective Dee: The Four Heavenly Kings', all of which are supporting rather than starring roles, so I've never really had a strong opinion of him before. His role in 'The Pig, the Snake and the Pigeon' definitely shows he's capable of carrying a movie as a lead.

Wait you never actually watched 'Monga' !?

[One Armed Boxer]

3 hours ago, laagi said:

Wait you never actually watched 'Monga' !?

Nope, add it to the list? 

[laagi]

1 hour ago, One Armed Boxer said:

Nope, add it to the list? 

[Yihetuan]

Well deserved IMHO!